Episode #99

Travis Chambers

Travis Chambers Talks Video Advertising & How He ‘Faked’ His Way onto the Forbes 30 Under 30

About This Episide

Hosts & Guests

Andros Sturgeon

Justin Womack 

Travis Chambers



Learn More About Travis Chambers and Chamber Media:


Visit the Chamber Media Website at: https://www.chamber.media/


Follow Travis Chambers on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travisallenchambers/


Follow Travis Chambers on Twitter: https://twitter.com/travis_chambers


Follow Travis Chambers on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/travis_chambers/

Check out the geekiest video of the week


Andros: Hey, Justin.

Justin: Hey Audra.

Andros: Have you, had you ever, uh, get a imposter syndrome?

Like you’ve, you feel like you’re just faking it and you’re like, Oh man, I hope no one.  realizes.

Justin: I mean, I guess, but I’ve never admit to it. You know, I really never admit to anyone that I get it, but yes, I do.

Andros: Okay. Well, uh, you know what, if you just faked it till you make it, what if you did that?

Justin: Yeah. Right.

Well, I try, I tried to fake it till I make it and, uh, and sometimes the results work and sometimes they don’t. But, uh, but often I’ve found that faking it till you make it is a good path forward.

Andros: That’s actually how we made this podcast was just that.

Justin: No, we didn’t. We were professionals from day one.

Travis: Yeah, man.

Andros: Welcome to the marketing game.

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Andros: All right. All right. Uh, Hey man, uh, we’ve got this, uh, really killer guests and, uh, you’re going to love him because, uh, he is a guy who, uh, was listed under Forbes 30, under 30, but he faked it until he made it.

Um, and, uh, but he’s also like a storyteller and a filmmaker, and he has an ad agency where he creates ads that are super creative and then also, uh, does the ad spend. And all of that. It’s all in like one kit. Super

Travis: groovy.

Andros: He’s in gentlemen, Travis chambers.

Hey, welcome to the show, man.

Travis: Yeah, thanks for having me guys. Oh,

Andros: yeah. Thanks for agreeing to be on. Um, and, uh, for those of our listeners who don’t know, you, uh, tell us a little bit about like, what you do exactly.

Travis: So I make a, it, it sounds simple, but it’s really difficult. So we produce really high production video ads that we run, um, as Facebook and YouTube, Snapchat, tick-tock ads, and, um, they’re, they’re really, really, really, really good.

They’re like fortune 500 Superbowl quality ads, but they’re fully optimized for social and doing that. We’ve. Triple the revenue for multimillion dollar companies in the last a year and a half. Not bad.

Andros: I just want to step in here and say that, that this isn’t, this, isn’t he? He’s just stating a fact. It’s not like this is an ego thing.

I’ve seen these things. They are really, really good, super high quality, super high professional, and, uh, and, and they’re watchable. They’re, they run about four minutes in length.

Travis: Average, but you get a lot of information. But

Justin: auto says to veer add. So if he’s, if he calls it watchable, that’s, that’s attention.

Well, what are you filling them in and what kind of camera are you using? Squirrel proof.

Travis: Uh, we use red. We shoot on red mostly, um, for our bigger staff. And then we will shoot on DSLRs for smaller retargeting ads.

Justin: So I’ll give you that. Don’t know. The red is like the, that’s like the top and video camera that’s out there.

I worked on one movie set in my time and we were filming the entire thing on a red. That movie never saw the light of day in theaters, but it was still a cool experience. And Eric Roberts was in the film. Just for a side note.

Travis: Well, what blows me away is  20 years ago, everything was shot on film. So you had to have a huge Mmm three $400,000 large format camera.

And then everything had to be perfect. You couldn’t even like fully exactly. See what you were filling me. Then I had to go through a process and now DSLR has changed everything and then red filled the gap and really changed everything. So do you have a

Justin: film background or what? What may, I mean, you’re using like top end film equipment.

Did you go to film school or like what’s your, what’s your background in film that brought you, like how did that come in with the advertising side?

Travis: I have zero background in film, so just self-taught, declared myself a director and closed a $150,000 production and we went and made it  turned out to super viral and.

That was it. I’ve got to

Andros: break this down a little bit. So you, let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s rewind.

Travis: So

Andros: first of all, how did you get into this? Like

Travis: from the beginning? So I’m, I made homemade movies growing up on the Handycam, so like we all did, you know, duct tape to the VCR, shoulder cameras, the top of the helmet, helmet cam, dirt bikes.

Uh, so my, my, my, I, I gave into the, the old parents whole route of, Hey, do something safe. So I owned a PR. Um, but that was 2009. That’s when journalism pretty much officially died permanently. Right. Digital marketing is going to be the way I go. Um, you know, I it to be graphic design. I, I got accepted to USC film school.

Mmm. But it was 60 grand a year. I didn’t have any money, so I went to this , this, this, uh, agricultural school in rural Utah and went to a program that wasn’t really, ah. A program. It wasn’t like a super strong program. There was two really good professors and that was about it. And, um, and then it was all just self-taught from there.

Had an accidental breakthrough, very embarrassing breakthrough. My wife and I, I guess I just got really interested in Devinsupertramp. He was really big YouTuber. Now he’s huge on Facebook. Mmm, okay. Got really big. He invited all these people when he had like a million subscribers on YouTube in like 2014 he, he held this meet up, actually, I think it was 2012 2011 hit a meet up 300 people came.

I was there. We all got super pumped up and we are all bit by the viral YouTube bug. My wife and I made a viral video. She said, if I’m going 80 miles, if I said, Hey, if you’re going 80 miles an hour, how long?  or 80 miles? And she spends five minutes trying to explain it.

Andros: I’ve seen this.

Travis: You’ve seen that video?

Yeah. Yeah. So it, it got 10 million views and we were in touch point. Oh, good morning America. It was just, it was huge. And that was it. That like got me in the door to, um, the top creative agency of the decade was Christian Porter and Bogusky in LA because Kraft wanted to license our video. And I said, okay, go ahead, license the video.

I’ll give it to you for free if you get, give me an interview. And I got the job, they flew us out to LA. How’s this out there? And then that’s, that’s where it all smart.

Justin: I love, I love that leverage if I’d interviewed,

Andros: well, it’s also, it’s also like, like, uh, just seeing where the

Travis: opportunities are going

Andros: and then instead of just saying I’m taking the opportunity, you amplify the opportunity

Travis: to really.

Andros: Make it in your favorite. I mean that, that’s brilliant maneuvering. So, um, uh, I want to play some audio for our, uh, for, um,

Justin: well, seven of them

Andros: for our seven listener, as you can’t see things on podcasts. I found out. After like our seventh show.

Justin: Who knew?

Travis: But, uh,  I thought

Justin: people had sonar, echo location, whatever.

Like my phone was broken,

Andros: you know, I thought people were just like me. And you see like invisible flying elves all the time. I don’t know that. So, um, okay, so this is for nerd skincare. This is a, uh, the video starts out, there’s a girl, she’s standing in an eighties looking arcade. And there are gross children touching it and a food fight kind of happening in the background.

So, so this is, this is, this is what she imagined her standing in that situation. And then you

Travis: bacteria filled hell well to talk to you because it may just be the perfect representation of your face. Acne people. I’m talking about acne. What’s worse than acne? Adult acne. Like that time you broke out the night before your job interview.

And your zits were on the forefront of your mind? Literally. You know, I’m really good with pimples people. I’m good


Andros: people and she’s, she’s now in the interview, so it cuts from the RK to her in the interview, and she’s got pimples on her face that are like

Travis: meringue.

Andros: And so it’s, it’s like this very, like, exaggerated, almost a , uh, um, uh, like, uh, uh, arrested development type.

Type humor, uh, in, in these commercials. But they’re, they’re watchable. I mean, this one is like five, almost five minutes, but I’m going to watch the entire thing because it’s just like, and the information is being delivered. So, so what made you  like first of all, do you come, do you have a creative team? Do you write these scripts?

Like how, what’s the process on making one of these films from the time? Like how do you acquire your clients and then what’s the process

Travis: to.

Andros: When it’s launched and what you do from

Travis: there? Yeah, so a client, usually they’ll come to us. Sometimes they will have, uh, they’ll just want a really viral video almost in like the, um, they’re just interested in it.

You know, they’ve seen old spice and dollar shave club and they just want, they really want that. Um, but other times, most of the time they really want growth and they realize that they can’t get there with smaller type of creative. Um, usually they’re brands that I’m, okay. You know, they, they realize they just need really good writing and really good creative to really break through and to further scale because you, you can actually grow a company to a decent size without great creative if you’re really good at targeting and have a good product.

So they usually come to us and, um, and then we will, we’ll figure out how big they want to go. Mmm. You know, if they want to do millions in sales and  well, start out spending a few hundred thousand a month. Mmm. Usually they’re already spending quite a bit if they want to do that, but other brands will be spending 10,000 a month, five 20,000 a month, but they need better creative in order to get to that next level.

And so that’s where we dive in and we, you know,  we build concepts, uh, and they hire us, we write the script, we do a deep dive. We

Andros: is it like how many people on your team?

Travis: So we’re 25 people full time, about 20 contractors in salt Lake. We’ve got a, a studio down there that we shoot on. And, uh, and then we make it, we make the thing and then we edit it, and then we cut it up in, we make multiple variations, so we shoot it in a modular format.

So we’ll have three or four different hooks, and then we’ll test four or five different sales messages throughout, um, different visuals, different  elements. And then we’ll test four or five, six versions of that video, and that will get us our scalable winner. And then we’ll launch and we’ll scale with that.

And then we create all sorts of retargeting videos, um, behind that, like, um, unboxings product demos, side by side, comparisons, testimonials, um, social proof, all that stuff.

Justin: Is everything that you’re doing is that every, all ads are video, video ads, is that, is that the entirety of it or are you doing any image ads, text ads, you know, experience ads.

Travis: 90% is video and we’ll have image. Sometimes we’ll use images to make a video with text overlays and stuff. She’s pretty common. Yeah. But video is, is getting the best performance overwhelmingly across the board.

Justin: And w what do you, what kind of goals are you running with the video ads? Are you running for views?

Are you running for like, I’m thinking Facebook in my mind, cause I’ve done a lot of work on the Facebook platform, but are you optimizing for views? Are you doing conversions and you’re, you’re looking at, you’re creating like conversion goals.

Travis: 90% of the time it’s conversion. So four years ago, 90% of it was brand awareness because you could get views and Facebook would charge a premium for conversions when Facebook didn’t really have that great data four or five years ago.

But now their data is unparalleled there. They’re like light years ahead of anybody else. And so now we’re pretty much always conversion campaigns. We pay that premium and, and it works really well for us.

Justin: Well, let’s talk about, um, the quality here, because you’re, you’re creating like super high quality video.

There’s, you know, we’ve, we’ve talked on the show before about different schools of thought, how some people like the more grainy, more, um, backstage type of feel versus the high production value. So, has your experience been, um, you, I mean, have you always been on the high end, or have you, have you tried both formats and this is what’s working for you?

I’m just curious in your opinion on that.

Travis: Mmm. It’s w w format as far as like length and stuff, or

Justin: I’m talking more about the quality, like, you know, like somebody uses their cell phone to film a video versus a read like professional for K five to whatever that films that I forget. Um, but high end camera or eight Ks or just whatever it is.

Um, what has your experience been as far as far as like, you know, the difference in like. Filming a low quality pixel. Wait, you know, a pixel video versus a high quality.

Travis: Yes. I’d say in a majority of cases, what really matters is the writing in the story, in the visuals and less often does the resolution or production quality matter.

Uh, so production quality is simply a lever you can pull that keeps people. It gets a larger percentage of people interested for a longer period of time. Hmm. That’s all that is. So  it’s not a, um, has to be no look like a Nike commercial in order to perform. It’s a good, better, best scenario. So your Nike ads that are beautiful  written by , you know, the best writers in the industry.

That’s the best. Lots of companies scale with good. Now if chamber, I’ll say it, the ads we’ve made for ourselves, they’re not even in that best category. We threw those things together because when a rapid iterative test, what kind of mass messaging and narrative would work, and now they’re doing really well, we’ll go reshoot and do it way nicer, way bigger, way better.

Um, the other, the other thing that we’ve found that we’ve tested this, we spent a lot of money testing this. Is we’ve, we’ve basically identified that there seems to be two camps of buyers, and some people seem to be more skeptical. They’re, they’re less like visual and an aesthetically motivated. These are the kinds of people that may like drive a Honda civic or a Prius because they just don’t care to have a beautiful.


Justin: like that still have millions of dollars.

Travis: Yes, exactly. They’re very skeptical. Um, they’re, they’re just not necessarily as visually inclined. And so for them, the information is what’s important. And so we’ve seen iPhone shot videos will perform really well with that half of people now, the other half of people, they, they, they have to have the image, the, the identity.

They wanna be able to identify with something that’s. Really, um, aspirational and ambitious and beautiful and sexy. And those are the people who buy Gucci purses and, and, um, where Armani suits and drive a car they can’t afford and

Andros: target demographic

Travis: really like,

Andros: then, then it depends on whether or not you’re going to go for that higher end.

Uh, sort of look. So, so, so the one, the, the, the, the, the question I have then is, um, okay, so you, you create the piece of content and you test it, I guess you take out like

Travis: very

Andros: small ad spends on different types of messages and different cuts of a particular piece of content, right? See which one performs best towards a particular demographic?

Then do you like recut it with the kind of, the winning sort of vibe that you’re looking

Travis: at? That’s exactly it. Yup. So lots of variations and we’ll move them out throughout the funnel too. So we’ll say, um, well, let’s test this out in a prospecting, and then let’s see what kind of retargeting assets get them to buy behind that.

Um, or then we’ll test something in retargeting. To see if it gets people to convert after they’ve seen a prospecting at. So prospecting ad is just your broad, that’s when you want to reach people who’ve never heard of you before. And then your retargeting is, uh, obvious. It’s pretty self explanatory. Mmm.

So we’ve seen some like raw iPhone testimonials, uh, drive millions in sales, the top of funnel, uh, equally equally as efficient as our. 5,000, $200,000 productions, and we don’t see that as a debt as a detriment at all, two to either side. We just see that as, uh, it takes all types of content to really perform.

Justin: So what, what type of a retargeting audiences are you building? Are you building around, I’m assuming you’re building around video view length, um, is that primarily what you’re doing or you, I mean, you’re probably also building around website. Visitors, pixel pixelated people that have been pixeled. But tell me, tell me what percentage of video view have you found to be like the best retargeting, or does it vary based on the ad?

And I also wanted to know, um, when you’re doing split testing, like do you have a set number of impressions that you try to reach to determine if something’s been successful or not?

Travis: Yeah, so retargeting, based on. Time watched. Completely varies. So it’s anywhere between 3% and 20% there’s what we’ve seen is usually that the most common range, and the reason for that is we usually get the brand introduced within the first 20 seconds of the video.

So we’re usually optimizing around that because if they see the creative before they hear about the brand and they click away, then they’ve. And in some cases they don’t know whether or not they were into this thing or not. So usually the problem, we can hook them and then we introduced the brand. And so we really want to be able to retarget people after they’ve heard about the brand because then they, they really can decide if they want to self qualify themselves or not.

And you know, the old way  is people would spend this, send the cheapest traffic they could and try to get the website to do all the work. Well, the new way is you want your video funnels to get people, because the truth is views are cheaper than clicks. Wait, wait. You don’t want people clicking that, that aren’t going to have a high intent.

And now as far as, um,

Justin: good point, it has a good way of looking at it. Yeah.

Travis: Yeah. And actually it’s surprisingly a surprisingly new, I’d say majority of marketers still haven’t really concluded, made that conclusion yet. Yeah. I

Andros: just, I just want to reiterate this particular point because it’s a really good one.

Uh, you make the video, you wait about 20 seconds before you introduce them brand, because then you can tell if someone actually has been paying attention or they just

Justin: clicked.

Andros: I like how it guarantees that, you know, if they’re on this side of the engagement rate or the other side of the engagement.

Right, right.

Travis: Yup. Yeah. And, uh, as far as your question about behaviors and how we retarget, so it’s pretty standard. So it’s a website retargeting. Mmm. One thing that’s a little bit unique that we do is we will make specific retargeting assets for people who have, um, going to the checkout cart, but didn’t purchase.

Let me call those cart reminders. Yeah, that’s, that’s something that maybe is a little more unusual that we do.

Justin: I played with that a little bit, so they’re basically like abandoned cart. You’re following people now. Even on that same though, when I was asking about the impressions, you have a set number of impressions that you’d like to reach to, to then determine whether an audience has been successful or not.

Travis: No. So for us, it’s all about the conversions and how warmed up the pixel is. So generally what we’ve seen is once you get to 25 conversions, whether that and that conversion can be anything you want, that could be going to a second page on the website. It could be giving you the email, it could be, um, clicking a certain link, or of course it could be a purchase.

And, um.

We don’t look at really honestly, we almost pay zero regard to views and impressions, and it’s really about conversions

Andros: now. Now, Facebook obviously plays a large role, uh, in, in kind of your advertising methodology. Um, and so what I’d love to ask you about that is, do you think that Mark Zuckerberg is an evil alien?

Travis: Great question. You know, I think he’s a, I think he’s just a, he’s a genius. He’s like, probably

Andros: you don’t think he’s like wearing a

Travis: human stuff? I don’t think so.

Justin: It could be a, it could be a shape shifting shape shifting lizard hybrid. That’s right. I forgot about those.

Travis: I will say the, I do think there are aliens among us. So, yeah, totally.

Andros: Of course.

Justin: Of course. We just can’t see them. Yeah.

Andros: But, but if you drink Iowasca, you can,

Justin: and that’s a separate conversation.

Travis: Or after you die, if you die clinically and then they bring you back.

Justin: Yeah. Then you’ve experienced that releases DMT right before you die, right?

Travis: That’s right.

Andros: That’s right. It’s

Travis: your

Andros: brain is flooded with DMT, which is the same thing in IO Oscar.

Travis: So I heard a few listened to Joe Rogan enough. You will start to see aliens.

Justin: Yeah.

Andros: You just look at it, Joe Rogan and think he’s an alien.

I think you could lose it.

Justin: I think if you listen to this show enough, you might too. Cause we talk about like simulation theory and all. Lots of weird things on this show. Also,

Travis: I don’t get too off track, but I think the simulation is my backup plan for, uh, for religion. So if it turns out is not true, then I’m just going to say, okay, more intelligent, smart, intelligent population created a simulation and all the religion is actually an accurate metaphor.

So I’m going to be that way.

Andros: I’m, I’m, I’m in, I’m into the idea that we’re already in the simulation. And

so what you’re, what

you’re thinking is just like what you would think in the simulation.

Justin: I gotta go. I gotta. I got a question. I want to bring it back on track. I want to you, you mentioned that you’re running ads on ticktock.

I’ve never even, I barely use Tech-Talk. Andras is playing with it more than me. I’m well aware of the value of talk. People are all over me to get on there. Oh, definitely. But I want to just talk about like what’s the ads platform like on there? Like I imagine it’s in its infancy, is it? How developed is it?

Like how does, how does that work? What does that look like?

Travis: We’re just doing very small test spends, so we haven’t, we haven’t spent any great amount of money because like you said, the platform is very. It’s very hard. It’s very like caveman basically right now,

Justin: especially the ads platform. It

Andros: really young, right?

Travis: Yeah, but that’s going to change because everything they’re doing is built like Facebook. Pinterest is copied. Facebook actually, I don’t know. I’m surprised there’s no lawsuits. They’ve literally just like copied the, the whole a UX of the ad platforms, but I’m sure, I’m sure tick tock Pinterest. I’m I, it has to be that they hired Facebook engineers to build all this stuff out.

Probably because. Google UX is totally different. Well, number

Justin: one, number one. Instagram stories and Facebook stories copied Snapchat. I mean, come on and there was no lawsuit there. So they’re like, well, if they can get away with that, we can get away with stealing everything from Facebook, you know?

Travis: Yeah. I don’t know.

I don’t know if Snapchat’s going to survive, to be honest with you guys. I, I know it’s big and it’s, it’s getting adopted by older people, but I, I just don’t know if the, they got the leadership, and I don’t know if they have these. I think tick-tock is going to probably edge edge him out really quick.


Andros: I mean, I, I actually, uh, it’s, I, I try to stay away from tech talk for two reasons. Number one, because I don’t like the idea of all of my data going to the Chinese government, but that’s different, uh, topic. Uh, not that there’s anything wrong with, you know, it’s just, I just, yeah. It’s either the U S government or Chinese government.

Travis: Snapchat made some really bad business decisions with how they went public, trying to. I think they all knew spectacles, what wasn’t going to be anything. And so he smoked and mirrored it. And I, I think tech talk, they have unlimited funding. Yeah, that’s what it takes.

Andros: Well, and it’s also, the thing I love about it is, is the interface is just so simple and it’s really just, you’re seeing people doing amazing stuff.

I mean, to me, part of the thing that makes ticktack great is that it’s kind of what social media was really designed for, where you just see people doing awesome stuff all day long. I


Travis: it’s the first platform that has maybe the ability to create.  at the complete average Joe, every person like YouTube, you had to shoot a video and edit it, and then it had to be very good and it had to be perfectly optimized.

Like you’ve got to be very, very skilled to grow YouTube channel. Yeah. In most cases. And, and, and to be successful at it on an ongoing basis, but tick tock, right. They have that duet feature and stuff. It just. Everyone can riff off of everybody else. It’s doing something that no one’s ever done. I it’s, it really is kind of like the ultimate social platform.

Whoa. And it’s open

Justin: for organic. It’s still open for organic reach, which is the big thing that everybody’s, everybody’s on. Because you know, Facebook business pages, you get to reach what, like 2% of your, of your followers when you’ve posted on Facebook. I mean, it’s like you would talk about, you wanna talk about a dead platform.

I think

Travis: what made, what made Snapchat grow is what’s going to kill Snapchat. And that’s the, yeah, the private, private, one-on-one saying that it started with, and then selling out  and then collecting data anyways. Like it just. Snapchat should never have been arrival social network. Yeah. It should have stayed an app like it was, it tried to rebrand

Justin: themselves as like an augmented reality company.

Um, I, that’s what I’ve seen recently is that they’re trying to like call themselves a technology company now instead of a social media company. But I think, I think the damage is done. It’s probably bit too late. I’m kind of on you.

Travis: I do think the next big sash social platform, it is some kind of AR. Uh, ecosystem, right?

Andros: Yeah. Maybe, but, but you’ve got to have hardware that’s, that is seamless with your day. You know, like

Travis: I, it’s got, if I have to wear a

Andros: clunky thing on my head,

Travis: I’m not going to do that. Right.

Andros: Well, I to, I need to ask you a question. This relates to tech talk. Uh, one of the, I just read this article, I think it was in wired, where they talk about how tick talk, uh.

Music producers are making small 32nd loops, and if the loop is successful, then they make the song and put it on Spotify. It’s kind of the new way of testing, you know, how something sounds. And so songs have become shorter because of that. Um, but I want to find out from you if, if you have used talk in that same way to test various messages and if you think that’s that kind of thing is going to be more of the norm moving forward.

Travis: You. No, we haven’t. And the part of the reason is because you’ve got to have an audience to be able to test it. And brands just don’t have very much audience right now in tick-tock. So we’re still relying on ads to do, to do that testing pretty much. And it’s just like the reach is so diminished on the other platforms that I think, I think testing organic is a great strategy.

And I, I’d say I th I think, I think I had maybe a smart move for a brand to do with their own people. For an agency. It’s a, it’s a tough model to do that.

Andros: Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, so, uh, so where do you see, I mean, first of all, obviously it seems like Facebook

Travis: is still a relevant

Andros: platform for advertising.

Justin: Uh, has she been banned unless you’ve been banned?

Andros: I’m actually talking clients out of using Facebook now. I feel like this since. To me, the platform is not an integrity, especially with people’s data. I don’t feel, I don’t want to give them business. Um, but you still find it for the time being an effective marketing tool. Can you talk a little bit about that

Justin: and where you see the future of Facebook

Travis: going?

For me, Facebook has never been better than it is right now. Yeah. So it’s, the herd is getting thinned right now and, um, it’s more expensive than it’s ever been. And the data though is exponentially richer than it was a year ago, even two years ago. It’s a, it’s like the Facebook has gotten to a point of like, it’s just an omniscient.

Hemophilia. It’s an all-knowing. It’s like God mode now. It’s so, it’s so bad for humanity, but it’s so good for advertising. So we

Andros: could, Berg is a, is a, is a multidimensional, like skin. She has like the most powerful thing in the universe. So.

Travis: That’s all I got. Yeah. Well, hopefully all the money he gives away makes up for it.

Like bayzos

Justin: they’ll try bayzos committed to 10 billion to, uh, to fight climate change yesterday. I think it was, but that’s probably, I didn’t read the whole thing, but I think it probably will after he dies though, I would imagine. I don’t know what the stipulations were on that 10 billion.

Andros: He’s living on Mars and Elon Musk is iPhones to him.

Travis: You know, there’s two studies at the, say all we need is a trillion trees. That’s it. I dunno.

Justin: Trillion trees. That’s a lot of space though.

Travis: Well, not well known until we try it. Maybe. Maybe a $10 billion can pay for that. So

Justin: let’s take a step back here, because when we, when we started the conversation, we started about this, this idea of faking it till you make it.

And, and you, you shared a story about, um, how you leveraged you leverage a viral video into a job interview with, um, with an advertising agency through craft now. Mmm.

Travis: So tell me,

Justin: what was it like working for that ad agency and, um. And kind of like, tell me about the experience there. Is that, is that basically where you learned most of your skills from?

I mean, is that a, is that what you would attribute to, to where you are in your career today?

Travis: Yeah, so fake it till you make it. It should never apply it. A scientists, engineers or doctors

Justin: or doc, I’m going to say doctors for sure,

Travis: but it always applies to marketing because.

Andros: That explains a lot.

Travis: You know what they say about the sword swallowers you know what they call the last, uh, last, uh, the person who ranks bottom in their graduating class.

Yeah. Doctor,

Justin: I love that

Andros: one. Smaller cord swallowing doctors, which is, that

Travis: was a whole other, so in marketing and PR, it’s, we basically are all, you know. We’re all, we’re all fake it to make it, there’s a reason my PR graduating class was full of beauty school, a beauty school pageant girls. But, um, it’s, it’s a, so, so what happened is, is, uh, I actually learned most of my skills in internships in side projects.

So started an MMA fight in college that was sanctioned. And legal, like it was 2000 people showed up to the first event. We held it nice hockey arena. We had EMT Ts, we had licenses, judges. It was all above board. Mmm. But I learned those, those foundational tactics through businesses like that. So, uh, I, I would, I flyered a thousand cars at football games until the cops chase me away.

I would, uh, put lawn signs around the whole town. Mmm. And, uh, with no phone number, no contact or anything. And then I would invite people. So I would message people on Facebook and say, if you invite 200 people to this group, I’ll give you a free ticket. There’s screenshot that the had invited 200 people to this event.

And so I pretty much figured out if I got 8,000 people invited out of 100,000 people in the town, that I get 2000 people to show up. Okay. Um, so it was just like I started a painting company that I have six months and I didn’t make any profit on that. Mmm. Was

Justin: that through college works painting.

Travis: Yeah,

Justin: I did that too.

Travis: I did that. I

Justin: did. I did 20 grand in business, which is not very, not not that great, but I, you know, I sold, I mean he was talking about faking it till you make it. I’m knocking on doors, you know,

Andros: it’s whole thing is

Travis: okay, so let’s take it, lets smarter than me. You probably half assed it and it was probably the smartest thing you ever did cause I went full bore.

And I would do anything to close the deal. So I totally,

Justin: I totally halfassed it. This was my college days. I was at UC Santa Barbara, so I’m like partying and like I’m supposed to work on the weekends for the college works painting. So doing 20 grand was actually pretty impressive given the fact that I didn’t even go out there every weekend.

Travis: I did 60 by the end of the summer, I was three grand in the hole, so I closed the biggest, fattest job I could. For the end of the year, and I went and did it without college works being involved and that was nice. That was the only way I served.

Justin: So to explain this, this company college works painting is it’s almost structured like an MLM.

I mean, the best way to describe it again,

Travis: it is, it’s a,

Justin: and it, what they do is they set you up with a franchise of, they’re painting a house painting. Ah, business and you’re responsible for buying your own equipment, but they give you the training, they give you the liability insurance to give you, it gives you that kind of set up.

And then we’re, we have to go door to door and build a business from scratch. So it was a, it was quite an experience. I, I’m glad I did it for the, for the value of what I’ve learned in it, but essentially, yeah, it was like working for free. And, um. But for me in that same kind of vein though, this whole idea of fake it till you make it, it’s like how can I find ways where I can work for free or get paid to learn?

And it’s finding like even if it’s a low paying job, like if I could find a way where I can get paid to do what I’m doing and learn, that’s that’s, that’s how you fake it till you make it, because you’re. You’re kidding. He’s got to get your foot in the door there, whether it’s internships or like low paying jobs or whatever it takes.

Uh, but that’s like, that was my journey. I think it’s really to make, it was like this, finding these ways of doing that instead of the path of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for know these seminar companies or for, um, you know, pre college through like a university, like that kind of thing.

Travis: Yeah.

Yeah. It is. It is that, and it’s like those mechanics translate to everything else you do, right. Regardless of the platform. Yeah, absolutely.

Andros: I mean, the very first website I ever built,

Travis: I charged for.

Andros: And, uh, I think I ripped that person off even though I charged like 500

Travis: bucks because I was just,

Andros: I’m just going to build a website for you.


Travis: yeah, the terror is just like  and you know, like th there may be like some, uh, there may, it may feel a little sketchy, like say thank you to me, but really there’s no, the reason. The reason it’s okay to say that is there’s no other way to learn marketing. Yeah. Marketing is completely theoretical, so there is, there is no way to learn it by, I mean, you could get, you could find someone with a doctorate in marketing and you could go find a 20 year old who grew up with a dad who was a vice president of marketing at some company.

He’ll destroy him. So,

Andros: and it’s also because you know, you, you, you

Travis: sometimes you just got to

Andros: try things. You’re just like, I dunno, I’m just going to do this. See if this thing works

Travis: for medicine. I’m practicing medicine, right? Doctors actually do fake it till they make it. Their first truth is, it’s totally insane.

Total insanity. But there’s just. I mean, they do surgery on pigs first and stuff, so that’s good. Yeah. Nobody

Justin: wants, nobody wants to know that their doctor’s doing the first surgery on that. But it’s got to happen from time to time.

Travis: Yeah. I mean, they do have cadavers and stuff. There’s no cadavers for marketing.

You know what I mean? Yeah,

Andros: yeah. And, and, uh, so when we, that’s the, that’s always the answer. If anybody’s wondering like, how do I really get into marketing? Just do it. Just do it

Justin: and just no cadavers and marketing.

Travis: That’s the hardest one that people ask me is, Hey, how do I learn how to write. Like comedic, comedic writing for anchor videos and I’m like, yeah, do it and fail.

Do it and fail. That’s it. That’s the only, like I can’t, it can’t be taught. It takes a year of just. Slogging.

Justin: Yeah. Really mean. The same thing with standup comedy. I would imagine just do it and fail because

Travis: I really want to chop. So the last six months I’ve been writing like a half hour standup routine and given like I’m not naturally gifted comedian, like it doesn’t come to me naturally, but I’ve been trying to really think about, cause I do think obviously, I think we all agree standup’s the most difficult form of writing probably of any genre.

Yes. It’s harder than drama. Thriller. Mmm narrative doc. It’s harder than anything. I’ve

Justin: known standup comedians. And the other aspect of that is there’s a skill in being able to deliver the same routine night after night. Well, while making it feel different and then making it feel fresh because they, when you, when you hang out with these guys, it’s.

Most 95% of their set is the same thing every single day. And some of them go like, you know, five days a week for like a year or longer with the same material. It’s pretty crazy. And they have to, they have to continued through to make that sound like it’s the first time they’re delivering it, kind of like a musician almost.

And, uh, and then keep the audience engaged. So it’s, there’s a lot of skillsets involved.

Andros: So you’re, so you’re doing, uh, you’re doing some comedy writing right now?

Travis: Yeah, I, I am. So, uh. I dunno if I’ll ever perform it, but I’ve been, I’ve been trying to challenge myself with that exercise.

Justin: Have you done any, um, any improv training or anything like that?

Travis: No.

Justin: That’s something I want to get. I want to get into

Travis: kind have though, because I’ve briefed and guided, um, probably like 50 different comedic writers over the last six years. So in a way, I think they probably have trained me to a degree. Hmm. You know.

Andros: Now. Now it seems like you’ve always been the type of person to be a bit more entrepreneurial, like take chances, stretch yourself, you know, so has this, is this something that you feel like you’ve always had that trait, or is it something that you

Travis: acquired

Andros: at some point or made a choice

Travis: to acquire.

I dunno. I, I never thought of myself as an entrepreneur, even though I was doing it. I never thought of myself. I always just like, my dad was a corporate guy, you know, he Greer Roundup. So what it is now at Monsanto gave tons of people cancer, including himself. Oh, wow. So like I grew up in it, uh, in the marketing side, but I always planned on having a job.

My, I remember when I was, I was 19. I was like, if I could make $100,000 a year, but then some of them 30. I will have made it, and that’ll be it for me. That’s it. You know?

Justin: That’s not me anymore, is it?

Travis: Well, no, not really. Not really. No. So I found myself at 26 Rankin one 20 in, in at 20th century Fox, and I was working like 70 hours a week, and this wasn’t very rewarding work.

It was my dream job and I hated it. So that’s when I really started to figure out I was an entrepreneur.

Andros: So, so, so you were working at 20th century Fox doing what?

Travis: Uh, as director of social media for three months. Oh,

Justin: and what year? What year was this?

Travis: Uh, this was six years ago. Okay.

Andros: So, so, okay, why three months and, and when was that moment that you were like, Nope, I’m going to do this on my own?

Travis: So, so they brought me in to do video. Mmm. And I was not very well equipped or. Experienced in what they ended up needing me to do. So I really sucked at that job. And part of the reason I was working 70 hours a week is I was in competent in so many ways to deal and navigate, uh, that kind of Hollywood and twice the tree Fox is kind of notorious for being the most difficult.

I had friends that like Sony pictures and a few other studios and they, I was like, Oh, you guys have such a cush job compared to me. Were you living in a way? Yeah. In LA. Yeah.

Andros: Wow. I lived in LA for

Travis: ever where you were, man. Where were you living in LA? Redondo beach. And

Andros: where was this  year?

Travis: Six years ago?

Justin: 1314 yeah, yeah,

Andros: yeah. And, and you know, the other, the other thing about Hollywood is that it’s, I, I, it’s, it’s as if, as if someone shook the entire United States and only the normal people hung on, and every buddy with some sort of mental disorder, you know, it’s sociopath, psycho, you know, banana head. Just like.

Travis: I ended up at  studios.

Justin: That’s why I’m really close to LA, but not quite there because that’s like a metaphor. It’s perfect for me too. I think it was a little bit,

Travis: I think in most of our sociopath’s in this country or in New York, in wall street and in Hollywood, and the, it just attracts those people, and if you ever want to see what happens to people who don’t make it, just go to the DMV in South Hollywood, you’ll find him.

Lots of hard plastic surgeries, lots of. It’s

Andros: wild. So, so here’s the here.

Travis: I think that’s the reason that South central exists.   skid row exists. Is it that pilgrimage? And then it’s just a prolonged olderish man. It’s just,

Justin: this is colored by drug addiction and depression.

Travis: But for me, so I, I found out it was an entrepreneur through necessity.

So I said, okay, I’m too deep in advertising to change careers, but I can’t find a job where I can work less than 50 or 60 hours a week. So I’m going to have to create that job. So it was an accidental thing. I found out, I found out I was an entrepreneur. I just took a, um, well, just took a Oh, really, really expensive personality tests, like a super legit one for a whole team.

And they’re like, you’re the most polarized entrepreneur that you can get. You’re like one percentile and every single one of these extreme areas. Did the Colby,

Justin: or do you remember what Tessa was?

Travis: It was the. It wasn’t Colby.

Justin: I had to take the Colby and I scored very high on entrepreneurial.

Travis: I can’t remember what it was.

It’s, yeah, I

Justin: can’t remember. There’s a bunch of them, so

Andros: I just want to, I just want to ask about one thing, and that

Travis: is, that’s why I felt a 20 century Fox too. I didn’t, yeah. I don’t have the personality or skills to be an executive, uh, or like a mid, not an executive. Sorry, I don’t have the seals to be a mid level  and a massive organization.

I can’t. I can’t handle it. It’s the same reason I can’t play soccer. I can’t see the field like, and an entrepreneur is like, you know, people say ADHD means you can’t focus, but it’s more like Asperger’s where you focus, you can only focus on one thing at a time. It’s sort of like an inability to multitask so often.

It’s just very difficult to juggle all these El entrepreneurs. It’s like, here’s the mission. Okay. And I’m going to kill it. That’s why he was good at swimming and horrible soccer, swimming. It’s like, get to the other end of the pool and back as fast as you can. There’s nothing else, you know, soccer. It’s just like, I dunno what the hell is going on with all these moving pieces.

You know what I mean? I get

Andros: it. So, so, okay, so, so you’re, you’re working at  and so you lived there. Uh, how long did you live in LA?

Travis: Three years.

Andros: Three years. So, so, and you grew up like in salt Lake city?

Travis: Uh, I grew up in a Mount st Helens wilderness area North of Portland.

Andros: Oh, okay. Okay. So, so what was your, like when you, when you first got to

Travis: LA

Andros: and you started working around these, these people, cause LA

Travis: people are like.

Justin: Were no Roddick.

Andros: It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s unbelievable. So when you were really around a large group of these types of people, what was going through your mind

Travis: and see? I felt like I was suffocating. Like I felt like I couldn’t breathe. So when I was at Crispin Porter and Bogusky, they had ’em. They have such a strong interview process there.

they had some of the best people in the world. Genuinely good people at CPB, people you want to be around all day. Incredible talent. Just great character. It wasn’t so Hollywood that I got into them like, where are the guy? Or the guy would fire everyone. He’d fire 15 people in a room. Mmm. And sniffing his nose a lot, and then someone tells you to show up the next day.

That kind of stuff. It’s the only word for it is toxic. Like it’s just a group of psychopaths in the same organization and not all the studios are like that. You know, but the people who rise to the top,

Andros: definitely most of them are sociopath.

Travis: I can agree with that.

Justin: It was a great book by John Roger and John Ronson about that called the psychopath test, which talks about how psychopaths tend to rise to CEO positions and high level management for corporations.

Travis: I think if you look at San Francisco and Los Angeles, you’ve got gold rush, right?

Andros: Yeah.

Travis: Only S only like only either a outlaw. Or a super desperate person or a sociopath goes West with the handcart. So look for gold, okay? The normal people sell shovels. And the psychopaths, they don’t stop. They can’t stop.

And so they are all still there. And so

Justin: you’ve got years of evolution from,

Travis: and so then not just on constant influx of desperate people with low self esteem and childhood issues that want that validation from the whole world on the screen. And it’s just like a predator. Situation. Harvey Weinstein

Justin: the room.

Yes. Yes. Now I got to wrap up this last thing here because we’re, again, we’re talking about faking it till you make it. You, uh, you wrote an article, or I’m sorry, you were featured in the Forbes 30 under 30, and then you recently wrote an article, or maybe you might be a year or two old, how you said that you faked it to get on the Forbes list.

Um, tell me, uh, just tell me a little bit about. That, uh, like what that, what that looks like. Like what was it, what did it mean to get on that list? Are you first and foremost, and what did it do for your business? And then, uh, what do you mean? What do you, what do you mean when you say you faked it? To get on

Travis: there?

So until I got that, I genuinely felt that Forbes 30 under 30 meant nothing to me. I thought it was like very egotistical pursuit to try and get that or to like orient my life or do things in a way to get that. However, I did see a really clear. Benefit two hacking media in order to get that recognition.

So what I did is, aye, I called up the most influential people we’d ever worked with in our commercials, like Laura Clary men and Matthews, JP Sears, and um, and I asked Laura clarity if I could nominate myself as her, so that she didn’t have to do any of the forms filling out. She said, fine. Yeah, she’s got like a few million followers.

So I feel, I feel, I filled it out. I sent her the link, she tweeted out the nomination, and then I called all the most influential people I could find and had them retweet it. And of course we tacked the, the Forbes 30 Twitter handles and a couple other of those handles. So what happened is, as I, you know, Forbes is, they don’t really care about who deserves it.

They really care about the business of reach.  selling more impressions. And so, yeah. So the, when they saw I was getting a lot of retweets from influencers, they probably stopped caring so much about how credible did I was and caring more about the kind of reach that I would generate if they put me on the list and, and I, and that, that was, that’s what, that’s what did it.

Justin: But I think all all words are, I mean manipulatable or whatever, whatever you want to call it. I mean, it is, you’re just weird. You’re just doing the same thing that everybody’s done for years, except you’re calling yourself out for it. That’s it.

Travis: It’s, it’s really weird than adults get awards. It’s really good.

It’s really weird. No, kind of weird.

Justin: We sell, we like to congratulate each other

Andros: that, you know, like for instance, I’ll do this with a company

Travis: where I’ll write a press release.

Andros: I’ll go on Fiverr, I’ll find a guy to distribute it to all the AP. It’ll get picked up by some newspaper or some online journal somewhere, and then I’ll take that piece of content and I’ll post it and I’ll be like, Hey, look, we’re getting mentioned in this, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So it you, you know, in, in politics, obviously, especially now is all about just. I mean, it’s, it’s crazy how the world has bin is now manipulated through

Travis: messaging. So Crispin Porter Bogusky became the number one agency of the decade from 2000 2010 because they pioneered  strategy. So they stopped writing to sell stuff.

They started writing for the press release. So everything got really stunty. There was a decade period where journalism went from. Mostly honest to two, mostly paid off and, and they, that was the decade where that worked. And now it doesn’t work because there the journalism press us most, most of it’s credibility.

So, Mmm. So we have a lot of companies, right. When we first started out that had had huge press press waves in 2006 or 2010 because they hit a, they hit up the right article at the right time.  people would cling to that and then that that tapered off. They’d get that same tier of press now and it, it doesn’t, it doesn’t do the same kind of thing anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin: So, so where,

Andros: where do you see kind of the future of advertising? I mean, obviously,

Travis: uh,

Andros: you know, it seems that you feel Facebook is going to stay relevant. I, I, I predicted some point Facebook will, I like my space,

Travis: but

Andros: maybe not. Who knows? Uh, what w where do you see it kind of going from here?

Travis: So I do think Facebook is an unprecedented social platform because of the amount of personal information memories that people have tied into it. So as far as the older generation goes, I think it Facebook could survive for decades now. It may not start, stay relevant with the younger generation, cause some someone is going to compete, someone’s going to invent something that that is more addictive.

It’s just, that’s just going to happen. Could be tick taco. Um, but I think that, um, the future is, it’s in the social platforms. I really do. I think, I think Pinterest will continue to grow. Mmm. You know, tick tock will continue to grow and I think we’ll see more channels. Fraction, I think over the top is actually really huge part of our future.

Like Netflix, Hulu. Mmm voodoo Disney. Plus eventually those are going to become ad platforms because eventually content is going to be free. Like it’s just a race to the bottom to that extent.

Justin: Uh, we, we had a political marketer on the show. Um, Phillips starts back in January or, yeah. And any, he talked about how Hulu sells information already.

So there are ad platforms that buy the information from Hulu and they can retarget based on like. Specific news segments somebody watched and things like that. So they’re already are ways of leveraging the data from Hulu. Another, they’re not. And obviously Hulu sells ads on their platform as well. Um, but I agree that because Netflix has been collecting data for years, so there’s sitting on a gold mine of data

Travis: and they’re just.

That’s like shareholders are starting to really pressure them to run out. They said they never would. I guarantee you they will. Well, the other thing I think combinations here now,

Justin: Disney plus is here, and Warner brothers and all these other companies are coming with streaming, so they have to do something.

Travis: Yeah. I think, I think the other thing too is you’re going to get to point to, or you’ll get paid to go to the movie theater because the ads that are there. Yeah. Um, there’s a new thing too that I think is going to be huge, um, which is a. . Um, C C commerce. It’s a coin that’s been turned by a woolly, there are Utah startup, but basically democratizing influence because three years ago.

There was really influencers, and then there were people had zero influence. Yeah. That’s getting further and further democratized with the creative tools like tick-tock, where someone with very below average talent, but that’s really not that interesting. Can make cool stuff. That’s us. Yeah. That’s me. I put myself in that group, so I think, I think a C commerce is going to be pretty big.

Where . Getting a million people to Tesla has basically invented C commerce. We don’t, we, uh,

Justin: we had a crypto person on a, we haven’t even aired it yet, but, uh, last, last week I think it was, and then he talked about the idea of, um, paying influencers for their reach, you know, instead of YouTube or on Facebook, making all the money off of this.

Like, actually. Paying them. I mean, I guess YouTube is paying the top performers some of that, some of that money back to an extent. But the, but the idea is that if you’re providing traffic and you’re the one that’s doing this, why aren’t you getting paid for it? Like you’re giving Facebook a ton of value for free and you’re not getting rewarded for it.

Uh, the other thing that I’ve been seeing is this idea of incentivized. Data sharing. So, uh, basically you’re getting rewards, like gift cards and things like that if you, uh, if you take surveys and share data, um, instead of the, the old way of just like, I was trying to covertly capture that data. So that’s another thing I see is like potentially taken off.

Travis: Yeah. And to your point, eventually everyone is going to have some level of celebrity. You know, everyone’s going to have some sphere of influence, like we already see, just like the huge, huge, um, drop off with, you know, the Oscars and with, uh, the global gold golden gloves speech from, uh, what’s his name?

Ricky is, yeah. The avalanche is sliding, man. And yeah. And so

Andros: this is the weird thing, you know, as we get into kind of a, a post-human.

Travis: Sort

Andros: of world. I mean, this is really the last moment

Travis: that

Andros: that normal human life is going to exist. Uh, and, and everything now is really about kind of marketing and hyper marketing and hyper targeting.

Uh, and I, I’m. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a challenge for the human race because we are also up against this whole concept of, of free will. And, you know, we don’t realize collectively how manipulated we are by this technology. I mean, we are super hyper manipulated by it and, and what it’s doing to us.

So, you know, I feel like we’re, we’re kind of entering this new  of human. Evolution in a sense where we’re, the technology is becoming merged with us. And when, when I taught classes, I used to ask people how many people think that they’re a cyborg and no one raised their hand? And then I would ask, well, how many people can go into another room and not

Travis: bring your cell phone with you?

You’re assigned. So I think, I think about 30 or 40 years, you will not be able to survive or find food or shelter unless you have technology integrated. Biologically with, with your body, with your brain, it’s gonna. It’s gonna happen. It’s inevitable.

Justin: Yeah.

Andros: Yeah. And so, and this is, and so this brings up an interesting point.

And, and, uh, one of the things that I believe. Might save us as a, as a species is, is as the Buddhist say, if one person is starving, we are all starving. But if we have a technology where we can actually see that that person starving, you feel that person starving and know that like, Oh my actions, just doing this little thing can either help or not help that person.

I think that will, like, I think that AI may get to a point where where we’ll be able to have like a biofeedback with. With our environment and other people, and we’ll become

Justin: some sort of shared empathy.

Travis: Yeah. I think humans are so integrally built for silver rival on the most animalistic level that I, I don’t, I think humans will survive a lot.

We’ve survived every single possible. You survived the ice age. We survived. . Yeah, that’d be bionic plague. I think we’ll survive. Avi, I think. I think we’ll see. I think we’ll reverse global warming. I think we have capacity. I have a lot of faith. Okay. I have a lot of faith in the survival instincts of humans.

Yeah, that’s, yeah. I so.

Justin: Couple of, couple of closing questions for you here. Um, one, what kind of, what kind of clients are you specializing in working with, or what kind of industries right now are you working with at your, um, at your agency?

Travis: Yeah, so the most common is direct to consumer. Brands. I’m mostly in CPG, so consumer packaged goods.

However, we worked a lot of services, SAS, B2B, um, we worked a lot of, um, national retailers like Potbelly sandwiches, who is, there’s no D to C play there. So it’s a pretty, pretty big across the board. But our favorite clients are, are our brands who are doing between one and 50 million a year. They have, Oh, they have a high affinity for risk and growth and they are ready to like double or triple their revenue.

That’s. That’s the most exciting brands for us.

Justin: So between one and 50 million is kind of the sweet spot and revenue. And how do, um, anyone that this listening that’s in that, in that range or, or still wants to contact you, how did they get in touch with you? What’s the best way to do that?

Travis: Yeah, so you got to a website, www.chamber.media.

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, or I have a public email, which is tc@chamber.media. There’s no S in there. And we have offerings as low as two or $3,000 a month. So we’ve got offerings for literally any company of any size. That’s great.

Andros: And so, yeah, trigger chamber.media. Uh, there’s no.com with chamber.media and check out some of those commercials cause they’re, uh, very, very entertaining.

Um, so, so Travis, tell us, uh, what are you. Geeky about right now. It’s gigging you out, man,

Travis: dude, I’ve been gone on a discovery binge watching the Bushmaster show  craft bushcraft and I really want to start making Airbnbs like,

Justin: I don’t even know what show of, what does this show?

Travis: It’s called bushcraft masters.

And then there’s this other show called, you can’t turn that into a house. Well, I’m like, that’s my dream, man. I want to go like find a huge cement drainage pipe and put it up on stilts in the forest and making it to an Airbnb and I want to make like an E walk village tree house thing. I, that’s like my geeky thing right now.

Justin: That’s great.

Andros: Uh, yeah, that’s, that’s a good one, man.

Travis: Um,

Andros: Justin, what do you

Travis: geeky about this week?

Justin: Amazon gave me $5 off my HBO subscription. So I renewed it. So for $10 instead of 15. So I started watching this, this show called McMillian, I don’t know if you’ve heard of it yet. It’s about how the monopoly game at midnight at McDonald’s in the 90s was completely a scam and rigged.

And there was this, these people that were, uh, that were.

Travis: They were playing,

Justin: they were playing the system. And uh, and like they discovered, like the FBI discovered that there were like five winners and all of them had familial relationships. They all use different last names, but they were all related. And so it’s, it’s episode by episode.

So I’m only one and a half episodes in, but it’s a, and I’m not even sure how many episodes it’s dripping out right now. A great, it’s a great start though. I really

Travis: enjoyed it.


Justin: Exactly. And I, I grew up, you know, I’m a, I grew up, I was born in 83 so I grew up in the, I grew up in the 90s I played the monopoly game like crazy. So

Andros: that’s a, that’s a good one. I gotta I gotta check that out. I, um, uh, I actually read an article in rolling stone, which I didn’t think I would find interesting, but it, uh, because it’s not my genre, but it’s a, it’s about the birth of heavy metal music because a, I’m not a heavy metal fan, but it talks about, uh, the, uh, the forming of the first heavy metal band and the first heavy metal album, which was black Sabbath with Ozzy Osborne.

And. And so they, they, uh, they started off as kind of a jam, like a blues jam band, and they would just, uh, Ozzy Osborne in these guys. Uh, the basis, uh, lost his fingers in, in like a factory accident, right when they were getting big. So he had to relearn how to play the bass. And so it’s really about the creative process and how they.

Just really took this opportunity. And they made this album in like two days, but the, but the guy who did the recording just like mixed it in the right way, and they just had this right mix of stuff and how it, and even into the 80s, they didn’t think that they were that big of a deal, but they were, uh, they were, uh, like Def leopard or, or, or, uh, one of these bands were.

Uh, listening to the black Sabbath album, and they were thought, Oh, these guys are just putting us on cause we’re here, you know, and they’re making fun of us. And they’re like, no, man, we became a band because of

Travis: you. You know,

Andros: so they kind of invented heavy metal. Uh, so anyway, I, I just found the whole thing about the creative process and how a company, or how a band, or how a book is written, the creative process of something is always very fascinating to me.


Travis: uh, anyway, I thought that was. Frank LaMi sliced the tips off of two of his fingers. So he made melted plastic bottles and tuned down the strings. Yeah. To the drop teeth. Drop D tuning. Wow.

Justin: Right.

Andros: So, so, so, so

Justin: they were, they were legendary.

Travis: I always thought led Zeppelin invented metal. I had no idea.

Andros: Yeah.

And so, and, and that, that part of the story is really interesting. They kind of glossed over it, but, but the guy, they’re like, just as the band is starting to take off, the guy loses the tips of his fingers. And instead of going like, Oh, he reinvented himself and pre-agreed that his playing and it made the sound that made the band,

Travis: Whoa, I’m going to go listen to a.

The black Sabbath album by black Sabbath. Now you had a perfect one, and

Andros: he’s this article and it all comes together and it’s just like, wow. They really, they really brought something in how they came up with their sound.

Travis: And Nitel has always been my main Shondra and, and uh,

Andros: yeah. Listen to that and then, and then read this article.

You’ll, it’ll, uh, you’ll, you’ll get a big kick out

Travis: of it. I think metal is a modern version of classical music. Yeah. There’s, there’s a lot of studies out there that people with depression, anxiety, or other like kind of, I guess, issues that they’re dealing with.  are calmed by heavy metal wear where people who aren’t.

It. It stresses him out. So yeah,

Justin: you’re talking about two totally polar extremes. I could see how, depending on your brain chemistry, how that could affect different people different ways.

Travis: I interesting. OCHIN Beethoven, they were basically metal heads with P with.


Andros: It’s true. It’s true. And I’ve heard some good metal versions of those. So

Justin: on that note,

Travis: life and life is metal.

Andros: Yeah, I, uh, I

Travis: absolutely let, uh, Travis

Andros: chambers everybody. Great show, great show. And, uh, thank you man. Well, we want to have you back at some point. So, uh, you know, check out his website. Yeah, yeah.

And, uh, and, and thanks. Thanks again for being on the shop, man.

Travis: Thanks guys.

Justin: Alright. Alright.

Andros: So, uh, I happened to be standing next to my

Travis: lovely bow of mine,

Andros: invented the man

Travis: van eras

Andros: in front of my Dutch.

Justin: It’s so good. I still get, I don’t understand it. I mean, that’s, that’s amazing.

Andros: It’s supervising what’s happening, baby. He’s coming up on the show. Well,

Travis: next week we are talking to a lady again, woman, a very successful young woman. Her name is Nadia mastery and Nadia is the CEO and co founder of

Bursky.com and persky.com is a search company and a  event. It’s an app, and they do a lot of research

Justin: for companies,

Travis: uh, like Pepsi-Co and big names, uh, amongst millennials. And what is successful is that millennials don’t have the feeling that they are a cooperate. How do you say that now? My English is not so good.

Andros: A judge. How you saying

Travis: that? They don’t have to feeling that they’re like in  deep in a survey, but it’s like more like a game for them or just they feel really engaged in, um, uh, anticipating in that, uh, uh, surveys in these kinds of surveys. So Nadia is very successful. She already. At several companies and, um, yeah, I think she had a, she has a great niche and a lot of, uh, good things to talk about.

Justin: We actually, we actually had a nice little prelude segment because she’s the one that runs, um, a company that rewards people for sharing their data. Like, we kind of talked about that at the end of the show here, but that’s what she actually does. So, yeah. Oh, cool.

Travis: Nice, nice. Till next week

Andros: where we wait, what do y’all, what do you Kiki,

Travis: I’m kicking about?

Well, I am McGee about building my own websites and starting my own podcast, and it’s called the metamorphosis and.

Justin: Oh,

Travis: thank you. Uh, and I focus on people who went through a metamorphosis. From what, for what reason? They date some big offend life event and that they, uh, decided to do something else with their lives, like work, relationship wise, uh, whatever, starting in their own business.

And, um, so I want to, uh, find. That kind of stories. And next to death, I’m going to make both guests for businesses. So I, uh, I’m going through my own metamorphosis at the moment. And, um, well the whole, uh, goal is to go live on April 1st this year. So I’m working very hard on it. That’s my geeky thing for the coming weeks

Justin: and a very specific goal too.

I like that because time. Time elements.

Travis: Yes. The smart goal,

the marketing geeks and producing the show for us.

Andros: She keeps the show running, ladies and gentlemen. Eras. Sturgeon. My lovely wife.

Justin: Yeah.

Andros: Huh.

Travis: All right, man. So,

Andros: uh, yeah, that was a, that was a great show. Anything that you wish to

Justin: have to mention that, uh, our podcasts, even though there’s only seven people that listen, has been mentioned now in two recent articles.

So I, you know, I happen to every now and then we get these little, you know, brand brand mentions and I like to look into them, but we, uh. We were named by Aaron , , Yara or Aaron Burton, depending on where you read his name, um, as one of the top 10 potty

Travis: cans,

Andros: DIB nerd,

Justin: AKA the effective nerd.com, uh, as a top 10 podcasts that he actually is more productive.

Well listening to, and that’s, that’s the thing, special right there. I mean, we make the man more productive. I mean, that’s, that’s something to be not taken away. Right.

Andros: Ah,

Travis: that’s a, with great power

Andros: comes great responsibility. So, uh, Aaron, thank you so much for listening to the show and, uh, being one of our seven listeners.

And, uh, actually he, he’s a, he’s a pretty interesting guy. So ears

Travis: booked

Justin: him. My other, my other favorite part though was we were an handed a list of, uh. The top 75 podcasts that advertisers are, the advertising industry is listening to. We were like number 26 on the list in a number of great them are 28 but my favorite part was that, that that.

Um, that list, they highlight one social media network for each podcast. It happens to be Twitter, which is our, like our lowest following. And it’s just, I just find it so funny that we’re like every, every podcast on, there’s like a thousand, 2000, 3000 followers, and then it’s like marketing gigs 26.

Andros: How many times people have mentioned us.

Justin: If you want to be number 27, go to Twitter. I mean, that’s just the reality is we created a Twitter account. We don’t do much with it. Um, and that’s our fault,

Andros: but we are active on LinkedIn, so reach out to us on LinkedIn and we’re going to try and do a LinkedIn lives if we can. More good stuff coming in with that.

Ladies and gentlemen, another fine.

Travis: This was a great show. This was really good.

Justin: I really enjoyed the conversation. Uh, that’s a very knowledgeable man right there. Travis chambers. I mean, the guy, he’s worked for, some of the top advertising companies in the world. That’s, that’s some

Travis: crazy stuff. And

Andros: definitely check out his, uh, his website because, uh, at, uh, chamber.media cause the videos are very entertaining and it just, it makes me rethink some of the things that I’ve been doing.

I learned so much on the show,

Justin: man lets me rethink my entire life.

Andros: Yeah. Well, I, I think that you should definitely do that no

Travis: matter what. That’s right.

Justin: No, but I really do. Yeah. We have amazing guests on the show. I love learning from them. I mean, the people that we’re bringing on have a ton to add to the conversation, and they all bring their own element of value.

So, I mean, we’re learning a ton. Hopefully you are too.

Andros: And if not for the snow, you know, we want feedback. Well, have you guys 

Justin: that’s right. Absolutely. Absolutely. So go check out and make millions on HBO too if you have HBO. It’s a conspiracy. I had no idea that my money was being taken by

Andros: McDonald. Imagine theirs and with that

Travis: stick Lassie.


Andros: any feedback for us on the show or

Travis: I guess the most enjoyable interview I’ve had, I’ve done about 40 podcasts. I think this is by far the most enjoyable.

Justin: That’s good. Can we quote you on that? Yeah,

Travis: I’ll go write a review right now. Oh, cool.

Andros: Thank you.

Marketing cakes.


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